4,501-7,500 GVWR – Maximum front bumper height is 27 inches, rear is 29 inches. It has played a huge part in Aug 23, 2018 · The key difference between the two technologies is how they are powered. Now turbos are making their way into the most popular vehicles in America: full-sized pickup trucks. Anti Lag is a feature of a software or hardware device that reduces response time, or “lag,” between a user’s input and the device’s response. The 6. Read FAQ. For automotive use in the United States, fitting an aftermarket turbo to a vehicle may be illegal if emissions or exhaust noise are altered Jan 16, 2023 · While turbos are not illegal in Texas, they must meet certain standards of safety and performance. Minimum fine for a first conviction is minimum $50 to maximum $100, with a total fee of $193. Sound systems. Quiet Rider. Antilag system. Mar 16, 2017 · Turbocharged Trucks. Use of NOS could mean a win rather than a loss. But if applied well a body wrap can last more than 5 years. However, there may be restrictions on the use of turbochargers in certain types of racing or on public roads due to emissions regulations and noise restrictions. 1 April 2019. Exhaust System Modifications. Apr 21, 2021 · Turbochargers and Superchargers. Jul 15, 2020 · Turbo timers are devices that keep an engine running [perhaps for 5 minutes or more] after the “ignition” is switched off and the key removed. Turbochargers are not illegal. However, many people have nitrous (NOS A turbo back exhaust is an aftermarket car exhaust system that replaces the factory installed exhaust system. i had it checked and it is illegal. However, before deciding to install a turbocharger in your car, it is important to understand the legality of such modifications in the UK. The 3. definitely belongs in motorsport though. 5 24v 3/4 ton 4wd quad cab long bed 209,xxx miles, Airdog 100, Adrenaline with IQuad, BHAF, 6" Aussie stacks (thanks to FBD) with custom heat shield, auto trans rebuilt for towing, Hornblasters 240 Shocker, occasionally tows 35' 5th wheel Florida. External Wastegates are responsible for turbo flutter. Fortunately, there are other exceptions to the law. Bull bars, or crash bars, are not allowed in Singapore, where the risk of collision with an animal is low. Vehicles 4,500 pounds and under have a max frame height of 27 inches. Fast car image from Shutterstock. This form this must be filed for systems which include a turbocharger or a supercharger. posted 2017-Jan-11, 1:53 pm AEST. While turbos are not illegal vehicle modifications, some laws and regulations vary from state to state. It is essential to research and understand the specific laws in your jurisdiction to determine whether turbochargers are legal or not. Feb 5, 2022 · Step by step guide for the installation is as follows. 7 Million for Selling illegal Parts in California JEGS Automotive to Pay $1. carthrottle. A supercharger is powered by the engine’s crankshaft, while a turbocharger harnesses the car’s exhaust to power itself. If your car produces more sound than this limit in California be ready for facing the results. 272. Why are turbos illegal in California? Sometimes, it is possible to be legal here in California. Carefully selected materials and tolerances ensure that they are up to the job and can handle the heat of the most severe applications. The Opinion explains in detail its conclusion that a robust Order against Intuit with meaningful fencing-in provisions will help protect consumers in the future. Phone – (913) 338-2886 Mon – Frid 8am – 5:30pm CST Sales Email Jun 10, 2024 · 2 Guide to Legal and Illegal Modifications. Jan 31, 2024 · The main difference is how they are powered. Therefore, you get more power from each explosion in each cylinder. It usually improves power and performance by increasing airflow and reducing back pressure. 7,501 and higher GVWR – Maximum front bumper height is 28 inches, rear is 30 Jul 19, 2021 · JEGS Automotive to Pay $1. Attaching bull bars. Credit: www. 4. Public opinion on squatted trucks is divided, with some seeing them as a form of self-expression and others as a safety hazard. This change in how we review macroing reports provides a much clearer line between what is and is not acceptable. But if you’re looking to turbocharge or supercharge your own vehicle, the legalities around that are not so clear cut. 7,501-15,000 GVWR – Maximum front bumper height is 30 inches, rear is 31 inches. Mods Archie, Ash, Ghost, Jed, John C Nov 10, 2020 · Many turbos are not approved under California’s Vehicle Code Section 27156 and can land you in trouble with the law since turbos are one of the illegal car modifications in Los Angeles, California. Turbo back systems are designed to improve the performance of your car by reducing back pressure and increasing exhaust flow. 4,501-7,500 GVWR – Maximum front bumper height is 29 inches, rear is 30 inches. Modifying your vehicle’s mufflers or exhaust systems is popular among car enthusiasts. Sound levels from a car stereo system cannot exceed 68 decibels within 15 feet of the vehicle. 5-liter. If we find evidence of you using other forms of mouse keys in game, we will take action against your account . Whistle tip does not produce that much sound – it mimics the whistling sound from a turbo. In most cases, a turbo back exhaust will increase horse power (HP). If you want a weld free setup, just put the exhaust cutout inlet onto the exhaust pipe and clamp it tightly. If that were the case, it would be extremely hard to find this model anywhere in the U. Adding a turbocharger or supercharger to your car is another popular performance modification. B. Whirlpool Forums Addict. Turbosmart tests and designs external wastegates to cope with extreme heat. Penalties for illegal exhaust depend on type of exhaust modifications and your location. However, their legality depends on various factors, including local regulations, emissions standards, and vehicle modifications laws. Mar 4, 2024 · 1 Nitrous Is Only Legal On The Race Track. Ensuring you have an EO number or get an OEM turbo, and buying locally are two ways in which to In conclusion, turbochargers themselves are not illegal. Jan 22, 2024 · The purpose of the remedies imposed in FTC law enforcement actions isn’t just to stop illegal conduct, but also to prevent the recurrence of those violations and related ones. Essentially, a turbo sucks in air, chills it, and then force-feeds the engine more air than Give our sales staff a call or email us at the following contact methods below. Even We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. A simple diagram of an entire engine incorporating a turbocharger (image credit: carfinderservice. Sep 30, 2020 · A turbocharger is a system that helps an engine produce more power and torque through forced induction. There's a big controversial thread on it in melee discussion (posted by user "Massive"). If you are caught using a turbocharger in a car that is not registered as a race car, you could face fines and Sep 1, 2019 · Any modification that deviates from the manufacturer’s specifications is not legal. Keep in mind red is restricted to fire trucks, ambulances, and police cars; green is only for volunteer firefighters and blue is designated for snowplows. P. Are Turbo Kits Illegal in California? Under California’s vehicle code section 27156, most turbos are illegal and can quickly get you into problems with the law. User #15607 30150 posts. If the performance upgrade component which you want to add or install on your vehicle, whether it be a supercharger, turbo unit, air intake, headers, ect. It works by delaying the ignition timing and adding extra fuel (and sometimes air) to balance an inherent loss in combustion efficiency with increased pressure at Dec 10, 2008 · With that, it is "technically" illegal to make any modifications to your exhaust. com . In contrast, a vinyl wrap can protect the factory paint. 1 Assessing Engine and Exhaust System Changes; 2. S. I would think the exhaust with mufflers and cat converter would be blown out in a few minutes on the street. Width of the tyres: This is a no-brainer, bigger tyres do look good on your vehicle but increasing the width of the tyre to an extent where it protrudes the body of the car, is illegal. But their applications recently started expanding to gasoline engines. Violations are considered a misdemeanor and are punishable by fines of $50 - $1,000 on the first offense and $100 - $2,000 on May 9, 2013 · Turbo timers, for example, are illegal because pretty much all states have a law saying it is illegal to leave a car running unattended (as in park it and walk away while it's still running). Texas Republican lawmakers say the voting law, known as S. i was checked at one point this year and was told, 'your good'. These modifications often include removing the catalytic converter, installing a turbocharger or supercharger, and adding aftermarket exhaust systems. 1 in illegal mods), however, turbochargers and superchargers are legal as long as they don’t cause your car to fail your state’s emissions check or safety inspection. 7 Powerstroke from 2011 to 2014 used a much smaller 43mm turbo, but because it used a double-sided compressor wheel, it could move a comparable amount of air to a 60mm conventional turbo. Loudness of the horn: Changing the sound and loudness of the horn is a Jan 28, 2023 · A turbo back exhaust is a type of aftermarket car exhaust that replaces the factory-installed exhaust system. If you are tuned with a cobb accessport, you will not have a CEL. A Turbo Back system is generally more difficult to install than a Cat Back system. 3. -ACE- said: There's no official consensus that notching controllers is legal in melee. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. While these modifications can make a car Aug 13, 2011 · on the street would be useful if you had a larger turbine and wanted to go on a spirited drive, although its probably very illegal and probably harsh on your powertrain. Failure to do so can result in penalties, including fines and impoundment. … Ensuring you have an EO number or get an OEM turbo, and buying locally are two ways in which to avoid a Jun 17, 2003 · C4 General Discussion - Whats illegal? Turbochargers? N20? Supercharger? - I was half way through my Nitrous install and my dad stops me b/c He called CHP and those pricks say that its illegal if they catch you using it, and they take away your car. Oct 26, 2021 · Additionally, sometimes BOVs/BPVs are made of plastic, suffer from inadequate valve response, and do not cope well with increased boost levels. The long-standing rumor is that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) banned the 1994 Toyota Supra model because of serious long-term reliability issues. Other customizations, such as a loud exhaust system or custom lighting, are hard to miss and can be easily heard or seen on public roads. Therefore, being knowledgeable about which Aug 15, 2021 · Exhaust modifications are illegal in California if your car produces a sound of more than 95 decibels. For example, a twin turbocharger system may not be used on a vehicle that is registered as a highway vehicle. Are Turbo Back Exhaust Illegal Jun 18, 2019 · Turbochargers and Superchargers Unlike nitrous oxide (see No. The law states: Jan 12, 2023 · Aftermarket air filters, cold-air intakes, and forced induction systems like turbochargers and superchargers are all popular ways of increasing the flow of air into the engine, and many exhaust system modifications––legal and illegal––serve much the same role. 7 Million for Selling illegal Parts in California. The anti-lag system ( ALS) is a method of reducing turbo lag or effective compression used on turbocharged engines to minimize turbo lag on racing or performance cars. 7-liter and a 3. Suspension lift kits can’t exceed two inches. Many turbos are not approved under California’s Vehicle Code Section 27156 and can land you in trouble with the law since turbos are one of the illegal car modifications in Los Angeles, California. This is because turbochargers can increase the speed of a car, and they can be dangerous when used in a car that is not meant for racing. The difference is that instead of increasing the flow of air into the engine Feb 24, 2022 · Virginia’s bumper height regulations for trucks — pickups and panel trucks — are based on Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Dec 18, 2022 · As long as they don’t cause your car to fail your state’s emissions check or safety inspection, turbochargers and superchargers are legal. Apr 27, 2016 · Virginia has regulations for bumper height based on the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Technical Specifications: – Turbochargers and superchargers are forced induction systems that increase the amount of air entering the engine, resulting in higher power output. 2. Getting an EO number or OEM turbo and purchasing local is the Feb 25, 2022 · The rules for emission control and catalytic converters are set by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency or DVLA, and not the police. The lowest part of the floor of the vehicle cannot Nov 5, 2022 · Turbochargers and Superchargers These devices “boost” your engine by forcing in more air, thus creating more power. 7-liter Cummins uses 60mm turbo. It is against the law to cover headlights with tinted or coloured materials. 5-liter develops the same power as the F-150’s big 5. O. . Large turbochargers will offer a higher boost threshold and can make more power. Feb 20, 2024 · Turbochargers are a type of forced induction system that compresses the air flowing into the car's engine. Exhaust systems, prevention of noise. com If you live in New York or are moving to the area, if you have a modified vehicle you need to know what is permissible on the roadways Apr 26, 2016 · Illinois has the following regulations in place for the vehicle frame and suspension systems: Vehicles can’t exceed 13 feet 6 inches in height. 3 Navigating Lighting and Sound Regulations; 3 Consequences of Non-Compliance. Vehicles under 4,500 GVWR have a max frame height of 24 inches. Texas has regulations in place that limit the sound levels that your vehicle can produce. Some users install third-party anti-lag Mar 29, 2016 · Mar 30, 2016. Any type of after market LARGE modification you make to your car (eg: Add/Bigger Turbo) you need a blue mod plate, for other small modifications you need to get your car inspected by an approved Engineer and get an Engineers Certificate, to justify that the mods were done within ADR, with these two things, cops cant touch you, unless May 31, 2023 · 1. Certain modifications are less obvious, like a window tint. Jun 10, 2024 · This means that modifications like turbocharging, supercharging, and nitrous oxide systems are illegal unless you obtain the necessary permissions from the RTO (Regional Transport Office). In summary, squatted trucks in Florida are not explicitly illegal, but they must comply with the state’s lift and bumper height laws. it is your standard 94mm that i have had since i started the class in joliet '08. Therefore, it is crucial to ensure compliance with local laws and regulations when installing a turbo kit. (1) Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with an exhaust system in good working order and in constant operation, including muffler, manifold pipe, and tailpiping to prevent excessive or unusual noise. Apr 22, 2019 · Here are the top five modifications that you are not allowed to make to your car, as specified by the Land Transport Authority (LTA): 1. It is no surprise that turbochargers add more horsepower to the engine which in turn boosts up the power of the engine. Feb 19, 2021 · Body Wrapping. 1 in illegal mods), however, turbochargers and superchargers are legal as long as they don’t cause your car to fail your state’s emissions check or safety inspection. Here we will take a look at some of the reasons why turbos can be illegal, and what you need to do to make sure your turbocharger is compliant with the law. Every new BMW on sale in the United States, save for the electric-drive i3, carries at least one turbocharger. 2 Window Tints and Frame Adjustments; 2. Lighting. Oct 1, 2022 · In a word, no. Feb 4, 2024 · The answer to if turbos are legal here in California is “ssometimes”. If you’re looking for ways to improve your car’s performance, increase its power, and reduce fuel consumption, consider getting a turbocharger or a supercharger. However, altering your exhaust system to increase noise beyond the manufacturer’s specifications in New York is illegal. For second and subsequent violations fine is $100-$250. In order to ensure that a turbocharged vehicle is safe and legal on the roads, it is important to understand all applicable regulations before making any modifications. slightly darker and have to let 50% sunlight through them to the insides of the car. Make a cut in the exhaust length according to the length of the cutout before the muffler. However, it is important to note that most aftermarket products are rated for “off-road use only” and may be labeled as such in their manuals. Some people believe that turbo back exhaust systems are illegal, but this is not true. Jun 3, 2016 · From the June 2016 issue. . It is most commonly used in video gaming and other interactive software applications. Georgia has restrictions on frame and lift heights: Vehicles can’t exceed 13 feet 6 inches in height. Apr 27, 2016 · While Utah does not limit suspension and bumper heights, frame height is regulated based on the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Oct 16, 2018 · A turbocharger uses spent exhaust gasses to spin a compressor wheel and deliver compressed air to the engine. Or you can click HERE to find a dealer nearby to help out with your vehicle. Vehicles from 4,501 to 7,500 GVWR Dec 13, 2021 · Adding a turbocharger or supercharger to your engine is also legal car mod . By Kate Gibson. Jun 9, 2024 · Supercharging and turbocharging are similar concepts, employing different methods to achieve forced induction. This includes removing or tampering with the muffler or installing aftermarket exhaust systems that Apr 26, 2016 · Frame and suspension. Luckily, there are many exceptions to the rule. Twin turbochargers are not illegal in California. Apr 27, 2016 · 1 (855) 347-2779 · hi@yourmechanic. com) Sep 30, 2022 · Turbochargers are a great way to improve the performance of an engine, but they are also often the source of many illegal modifications. We will be happy to assist you with any technical questions about supercharger systems and the results you can expect. reference: whrl. § 316. com Whether you live Massachusetts or are moving to the area, you need to know about the vehicle modification laws to make sure your car or truck Jan 22, 2020 · He explains that for companies looking to sell to all 50 states, they have to “submit for approval,” which can cause delays in product launches. Audi and Mercedes-Benz are nearly as turbo-centric. Less than 4,500 GVWR – 23 inch maximum frame height. Whilst a supercharger is mechanically driven via a belt that connects it to the engine’s crankshaft, a turbocharger is powered by the exhaust gases from the engine. CARB conducts enforcement actions against individual vehicle owners that have violated the law by tampering, modifying, or installing illegal parts on emission-controlled vehicles operated on a public highway. Suspension modifications can’t lift or lower the vehicle bumper height by more than three inches. Justice Department has since sued Texas over the law, arguing that it disenfranchises voters. SO my question is, If I make a custom turbocharged setup on my car, Sep 22, 2020 · Turbo sales may reportedly be down 40 percent, but Garrett's big problem is the asbestos liability Honeywell dumped on them in 2018. Nov 8, 2023 · Twin turbo systems are advanced automotive technologies that involve the use of two turbochargers to boost engine performance. In fact, they are commonly used in many high-performance vehicles. However, if you do, be smart about it. If you own a car that is not approved by California’s Vehicle Code Section 27156, you can be in trouble Dec 29, 2022 · car have to have at least 70% VLT (Visible Light Transmission) to be road legal. -Mike- writes In WA it is not illegal to have a turbo timer but it is illegal to leave the car unattended while running. #10. Thanks that answered my question. Vinyl wrapping your car is perfectly legal. ARENA Creative / Shutterstock. Car enthusiasts in New York State may face fines for certain vehicle modifications like dark window tints and loud Feb 20, 2023 · Anti Lag is not illegal, though some cases of using it may be. Trucks with less than 4,501 GVWR can have front and rear bumpers May 20, 2024 · A bolt-on aftermarket turbo kit is not inherently illegal in California. While turbochargers harness exhaust gas to spin a turbine, superchargers are mechanically driven by the engine’s crankshaft, delivering instant power boost without the lag commonly associated with turbochargers. May 22, 2023 · The turbo size will determine the engine’s boost threshold, which is the rpm required to start spooling the turbo. The Ford F-150 offers two turbocharged V6 engines, a 2. Less than 4,501 GVWR – Maximum front bumper height is 24 inches, rear is 26 inches. Very dark tinted glasses are deemed as illegal as these hamper the vision of the driver while also preventing a clear. Apr 26, 2016 · Our service team is available 7 days a week, Monday - Friday from 6 AM to 5 PM PST, Saturday - Sunday 7 AM - 4 PM PST. During the Genesis 3 stream crimson blur said the major TO's he spoke to all wanted it banned. By James Gilboy Updated on Sep 22, 2020 12:28 PM EDT May 5, 2023 · Turbochargers and Superchargers Legal Status: Legal, as they increase engine power and efficiency. These numbers don’t solely apply to legal boost like superchargers or turbochargers. Apr 27, 2016 · Sounds and noise. If you're using your systems default mouse keys, you're playing within the rules. Less than 4,501 GVWR – Maximum front bumper height is 28 inches, rear is 28 inches. This car modification might cost you anything from 10,000 to a lakh rupee. Jan 28, 2022 · The U. 1 (855) 347-2779 · hi@yourmechanic. Nitrous can give you an advantage on the quarter-mile track. Florida Statutes. The sound of turbo flutter, or compressor surge, is sometimes referred to as Apr 20, 2024 · In 2022, New York rejected nearly 2,000 license plates. com North Carolina has a variety of laws in place that govern modified vehicles. A supercharger, however, is attached to your engine’s crankshaft by a belt. Check out the pair of 58mm inducer (inlet) Garrett turbos breathing through an Apr 1, 2019 · 3 mins read. Here’s what you need to know. Apr 10, 2024 · For context, the stock turbo size on a 6. Turbocharging has evolved over the past few decades from being a novel, if laggy, gadget for gaining cheap power to much more than that. 2 Smog Checks and State Verification Processes; 4 Enhancing Performance Legally We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. On the flip side, you won’t see much of a performance improvement with a Cat Back, whereas a Turbo Back exhaust system can get you a lot more Horsepower! If you’re looking for more sound, you would choose the Cat Back over the Turbo Back. May 3 1:47 PM EDT. If you live in the state or are planning on moving to it, you need to make sure your modified car or truck follows Apr 8, 2009 · In most places your turbo counts as a muffling device, so your covered there. There is an option to DIY it. Wondering if "pure turbos" are legal in your state? Our comprehensive guide breaks down the legality of pure turbos in each state, helping you stay on the right side of the law. Jun 27, 2016 · These types of high performance cars aren’t illegal to purchase; they’re just pricey. Turbo Flutter is Harmless. LTA’s explanation for disallowing such modifications is that they can actually May 24, 2020 · The illegal Supra in question 1994 Toyota Supra Turbo | Toyota. They made it illegal to leave a vehicle unattended without first ‘stopping its engine, locking the ignition, and removing the ignition key, applying the brake’ and so on. We combed through the list and here are 70 that made us shake our heads, drop our jaws, or just left us wondering why anyone would think the state would accept their request. However, it is essential to note that these cars run blow off valves to prevent compressor surges, leading to the next misconception. In illinois, they do not have the capability to put an AWD car up on the testing dyno, so all they do is an OBD port test. Oct 5, 2022 · In California, it is illegal to use a turbocharger in a car that is not registered as a race car. These devices “”boost”” your engine by forcing in more air, thus creating more power. 4,500-7,499 GVWR – 26 inch maximum frame height. 0-liter V8, and it does so at much lower rpm. Sep 13, 2009 · the turbo in question is the one that was on my car. Advantages of Installing a Turbocharger Jan 22, 2023 · Illegal street cars, also known as “street racers” or “hot rods,” are vehicles that have been modified to increase their speed and performance. Dec 30, 2023 · Turbochargers are a popular modification for car enthusiasts, as they can significantly increase the power and performance of a vehicle’s engine. Oct 21, 2022 · Obviously, they are not illegal if originally equipped. Car Wrapping. These systems are designed to improve the efficiency and power output of an engine by forcing more air into the combustion chamber, which in turn allows the engine to burn more fuel and produce more horsepower. Are turbo kits illegal? Jan 15, 2022 · They certify your turbo kit upgrade, and you can pass the smog check. 6-liter LML Duramax is 61mm, and a 6. is not listed on CARB's website, it is not for legal use in California, except for off-road use only in certain circumstances, and it might cause your vehicle to fail the smog inspection. Dec 13, 2021 · Turbochargers and Superchargers These devices “boost” your engine by forcing in more air, thus creating more power. Apr 27, 2016 · Washington also has regulations for bumper height based on the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Vehicles between 4,501 and 7,500 pounds have a max frame height of 30 inches. That makes it the perfect engine for Nov 9, 2023 · Conclusion. However, there are regulations in place that limit the use of twin turbochargers on certain vehicles. 1998. Fees can climb up to $1,105 in some cases. pl/ReNnv5. The sides can be. 1 Penalties, Tickets, and Insurance Impact; 3. Forward the completed application along with the necessary attachments to: California Air Resources Board Chief / Aftermarket Parts Certification and Audit Branch Emissions Certification and Compliance Division 9480 Telstar Avenue, Suite 4 El Monte Accordingly, a turbocharger can approximately add from 70 hp to 150 hp to your car’s engine meaning it has the potential to provide a gain of 10 to 50 percent hp to your car. May 30, 2022 · Is Twin Turbo illegal in California? Many turbos are not approved under California’s Vehicle Code Section 27156 and can land you in trouble with the law since turbos are one of the illegal car modifications in Los Angeles, California. Oct 9, 2020 · In this UTI NHRA 101, Bruno Massel gives a walkaround of the twin-turbo’d 2JZ engine in his Comp eliminator car. Turbochargers and Superchargers. Do the same procedure with the exhaust cutout outlet. The advantage of compressing the air is that it lets the engine squeeze more air into a cylinder, and more air means that more fuel can be added. com. Emissions levels must be meet and if by fitting a decat pipe the vehicle no longer complies with the emissions standard set then it makes it illegal. Approval comes in the form of a CARB Executive Order or EO number. Turbochargers are not illegal in the United States, as most diesel engines are designed to use a turbo. Jul 10, 2020 · 27156 and 38391) and therefore is illegal to register or identify with DMV or operate on a public highway in California. Failure to comply with these rules can result in fines, vehicle impoundment, and even imprisonment. 1, is aimed at increasing public Charge / Boost pipe. 7,500 and up GVWR – 28 inch maximum frame height. A Body-Wrap will not do any damage to your car’s paint job. Whether subtle or drastic, some vehicle modifications are illegal. Mar 16, 2017 · Turbochargers are known for boosting horsepower, so how do they improve fuel economy? They allow automakers to put smaller engines in cars without giving up the power that consumers have come to Dec 2, 2004 · Post #15. kb up ch xq fl li xo tf zw uv